Last weekend, after posting my thoughts on Memorial Day, I got a phone call from someone, another writer, who wanted to talk about my article, and another idea he had.
I had to be brief as I was in the middle of barbecuing supper for my family, but he did get a chance to discuss something that has been pestering me all week. My friend has been looking for a way to write an article that ties everything all together, in simple terms that everyone could understand.
The thing is, so have I. I have read up on all the ‘so called’ conspiracy theories. I have read about the CFR, the Bildeburgers, the Illuminati, and I have tried to find a way to put it all together so that people can see that their government is being controlled by forces who do not have our best interests in mind.
Then yesterday, as I was at Lowes, helping my wife select some geraniums for our yard, it hit me, I think I know how to tie all this together. You see, I was focused on the wrong thing.
I was trying too hard to tie the Bildeburgers to the CFR and to the Federal Reserve, to the House of Rothschild ad nauseam. I was attempting to trace family lines, who married who, who owned what, and how they came up with this diabolical scheme to create this complex web of organizations designed to bring about the downfall of our republic.
How to tie it all together had bothered me for so long that I had long since given up the idea of even attempting to do so, then my friend called and got me thinking about it again. Yesterday the answer came to me, and it was so simple, that if I could, I would kick myself in the buttocks for missing it.
You see, the answer lies not with how man can be so diabolical, so evil, to take away our liberties, to impose all these governmental programs which reduce us to poverty. No, the answer is simply that these are the goals and desires of Satan.
No longer do I have to consider how one man, or any group of men, could come up with all these plans to bring about our nation’s ruin. All that has to be considered is that these men are following their desires for earthly power and control.
Some may actually have given themselves over to Satan in return for earthly wealth and power, while others may simply be misguided. Take for instance all those who voted for Barack Obama and his slick talk of change we can believe in. Many were beguiled by his smooth delivery and his promises of a better America. The devil was a smooth talker also. After all, he got both Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge, after they had be explicitly warned by God that if they did, they would die. Genesis 2:17
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that Obama is the devil incarnate, or that he is aware that he is doing the devils handiwork. I am just saying that history is full of examples of how entire nations have been fooled by smooth talking, charismatic leaders who promised them better times if the people would support them.
The colonists who came to America in the 1600’s did not do so to seek riches. They did so to escape the religious persecution they suffered from back in their native land. They came to America to worship freely and this was reflected in the fact that many of their laws were based upon their religious beliefs.
Although many of the colonies held to that belief that men were able to worship freely, there were some places which prohibited one from worshiping as one saw fit. One such place was the Dutch Colony of New Netherlands which established the Dutch Reformed Church, and outlawed all other forms of worship. However, for the most part, men were free to worship God as they so desired.
In fact, in 1777, Thomas Jefferson drafted what is known as The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom. From that I quote, “Be it enacted by General Assembly that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of Religion…”
That is quite similar to the principle contained in the First Amendment, which, in part, states, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
Never let it be forgotten that our nation was founded by men of faith. They may have held varying beliefs on the matter, but for the most part they were men who held firm convictions upon the divinity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Patrick Henry declared as much when he said, “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”
Now anyone who claims to be a Christian should be aware that Satan stood against everything that Jesus preached. If you have read the Scriptures you most certainly remember when Christ was tempted by Satan, and He told him, “Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.”
Again, in Matthew 16:23, we find Christ rebuking Satan, “But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.”
You see, Satan is able to tempt man by promising him wealth and power, but Christ taught us to disregard these things. From the Sermon on the Mount we read, “Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: ”
Almost immediately following Christ tells us, “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” Matthew 6:24
Mammon is defined as wealth and greed. Therefore those whose sole goal is to obtain more wealth, more power, are not in line with the teachings of Christ. Therefore the only conclusion is that they have given in to the temptations of Satan.
One does not need to find a connection between the goals of these wealthiest of the wealthy. One does not need to find out who is behind the plans for a New World Order, for the loss of our rights, or for the loss of our nation’s sovereignty. The answer lies in Scripture, and that being is Satan.
Our nation was founded upon the belief that we held certain unalienable rights, that these rights were given us by our Creator. Therefore anyone who seeks to take these rights away from us does not serve God, otherwise they would understand that what they are doing is not what God would desire of them.
That is why the push for political correctness, for tolerance, and for acceptance of all things that a century ago would never have been tolerated. The other day I got an e mail from someone which contained a ‘supposed’ letter written to Dr. Laura Schlesinger by a Mr. James M. Kauffman. The letter discussed the subject of homosexuality because of Dr. Laura’s statement that the Book of Leviticus states it to be an abomination.
The writer goes on to inform Dr. Laura that the Book of Leviticus also defends the practice of slavery, putting his neighbors to death for working on the Sabbath, and a host of other practices found in Leviticus.
The letter appears to mock God’s law by showing that it is outdated. However, one ought to read the Book of Romans, wherein we find, “For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.”
As our nation pushes this concept of tolerance, for our lack of understanding of the principles upon which our nation was founded, for our lack of holding firm to God’s Laws, we are being punished, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness…” Romans 1:18
People who place their faith in the political parties, and their candidates, to solve the problems that this country faces, are misguided, as our problems stem not from political parties, but from our distancing ourselves from God.
In the Book of Ephesians we read, “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
That is where our problem lies. I could write until the world ran out of ink and still people would not understand that it is not against men that our battle lies. Men serve either God, or they serve Satan.
If our country is to survive, the people who call themselves Americans, who call themselves patriots, must recognize this fact. We can write, and we may even give our lives fighting for our rights, but it will be of no avail until we as a nation once again give ourselves unto the Lord.
The answer to all our problems is simple, and is found in 2 Chronicles, “If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.”
Christ told his followers that if they had the faith of a grain of a mustard seed, “…ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.”
We can heal this land, but to do so we must stop tolerating immorality. We must forsake our desire for wealth, for trivial entertainment, and we must speak out against evil wherever we see it. More importantly, we must pray for those who lead us that they may see the error of their ways, that we may once again become ‘one nation under God.’
That is our only salvation, and I leave it for you
It is too bad that we have not talked sooner. I have long held that our struggle is between “good and evil”. Man … sinful man covets many things, the ultimate being “power”. It is the narcotic of the greedy mind, and a sickness that will allow and justify (in the twisted mind) the butchering and enslaving of all that oppose them in their quest.
We have before us a “great struggle” that will surely try all of us in our attempts to “restore” a good and decent government and society. It will take generations to undue what has been done to our beautiful nation that was founded on a dream… an idea, a simple nation founded in “humility” and love of God and Country. Our enemies are “evil” incarnate and will happily kill us all to stop us from interfering with their “workers paradise”.
Well done fellow Patriot.
I think that I have sort of known this all along, but I was focusing too much on the small issues without paying attention to the big picture.
Once I came to the realization of what is really going on I look at everything that is going on from a completely different perspective now.
I’m very disappointed that you would erase my post, Neal. I thought you were better than those goons over at the Federal Observer. I thought you might have enough integrity to defend your views against criticism. Clearly that is not the case. You finally have “figured it out”, but you can’t prove any of the claims in your essay. People like you and “Dakota” are the problem. You have strong views but aren’t willing to think about them critically. You have little regard for consistency and if someone proves you wrong or challenges you you delete their post like a coward or you call them names. The world needs better people than that, Neal. Knowledge is the most important thing, and it is has only enemies in people like you. I’m done wasting my time with you Zombies.
I didn’t delete your post for the reasons you state. It is hard to prove my belief in something that can’t be proven by science, or tangible items, such as my belief in God. I deleted your post because it is useless to try and prove to someone something that has to be accepted by faith alone. When you call my belief superstitions I have no way of convincing you otherwise. If you hadn’t insulted my belief I would have left your post alone.
“If you hadn’t insulted my belief I would have left your post alone.”
Neal, people can be insulted but a belief cannot. Beliefs can and must be subjected to criticism, sometimes harsh, in order for advancements in knowledge to occur. You may have strong feelings for your beliefs, but that ought not to afford them any special protection or consideration.
The entire tone of your essay implies that you are attempting to explain an objective set of facts in the real world, a set of facts that all Americans urgently need to accept, not that you are merely relating subjective views that we have no good reasons for believing are true. Had I known that that is what you were doing it would have made no sense to try to engage you in any type of rational argument sense you have clearly abandoned objective standards of inquiry necessary for productive dialogue. So you are right, it doesn’t make sense to debate about the types of free-floating, vacuous beliefs you are describing, but it also makes no sense to base public policy on them, or to fault anyone else for not accepting them, or to use them as premises in any argument meant to sway the views of anyone else, or for anyone else to show them consideration or respect. Something tells me that you would not be willing to follow those implications though.
Gosh I sure hope you are done wasting your time on us “Zombies” …. I am not going to change you and damn sure aren’t gonna change me.
Bye … wear your chains lightly.
You see, that is the problem. Whether or not America chooses to accept what I am saying or not is the whole point when you get down to basics. Whether or not you, or anyone else choose to believe in God, or whether or not you, or anyone else, choose to obey His laws, is irrelevant. He will judge us, whether we believe in Him or not.
I am not trying to base public policy on them. You may have been right when you said that women not having the vote, and slavery, and a whole host of other things happened in our nations history, but it was still founded upon Christian principles. Many of our laws find their basis in the Ten Commandments.
So, if people choose not to believe in the presence of evil, or Satan, that does not mean that they do not exist. If you had never seen a Grizzly Bear would you say they don’t exist because you had never seen one?
In the Book of Deuteronomy we find, “Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee”
There are numerous other passages throughout Scripture which clearly show that unless man obeys God’s law they will suffer. Our nation is suffering because we have allowed sin to rule our lives.
The majority of the people in the country claim to be Christian. Yet how can a Christian, in good faith, vote for a candidate who campaigns in support of issues that go against the teachings they claim to believe in?
It matters not whether you believe me, or if you don’t. I know that this nation has forsaken God, and His teachings. As a result we are suffering. All our woes, the poverty, the crime, the oppressive government we have, can all be traced back to our not obeying God’s law.
So, it is a waste of time to argue this issue, when it seems you are trying to seek visible proof that what I am saying is true. I cannot provide such tangible proof, so it is a waste of time trying to convince you.
You may be right when you say that things such as homosexuality were practiced long ago, just in the closet. Yet it is the public’s willingness to tolerate this behavior. In fact to tolerate anything which goes against God’s law, instead of condemning the action proves that those who profess to be Christian, are in fact not.
America is paying because it is a sinful nation, and unless we change that, there is no possibility of us every recovering the liberties we have lost.
End of rant.
“I am not trying to base public policy on them. You may have been right when you said that women not having the vote, and slavery, and a whole host of other things happened in our nations history, but it was still founded upon Christian principles. Many of our laws find their basis in the Ten Commandments.”
Don’t murder and don’t steal. Sometimes it is unlawful to lie. Those are the only laws that might be said to have a basis in the Ten Commandments. That’s hardly “many laws”. Of course societies have found a need to prohibit wanton murder, thievery, as well as lying in certain contexts since long before the Ten Commandments were conceived. So the Ten Commandments were virtually useless in the making of our nations laws and most of the Commandments would actually be unconstitutional if they were enforced by the state.
“So, if people choose not to believe in the presence of evil, or Satan, that does not mean that they do not exist. If you had never seen a Grizzly Bear would you say they don’t exist because you had never seen one?”
Of course not. But the important difference between the proposition “Grizzly bears exist.” and the proposition “God exists.” is that it is not possible to prove that the latter statement is true by way of the best methods that we have for determining the truth value of any given statement. In principle you should be able to prove to someone that God exists in the same ways in which you would prove the existence of Grizzly bears or anything else; through reason and evidence.
It is important to accept any proposition as true only to the extent that it is supported by reason and evidence because there is an infinite number of propositions that can be made about the way the world is. Some method is needed for determining what is true from what is false. You should know that just because you have believed something for a long time does not make it true. Just because a lot of people believe something does not make it true. Just because something makes you feel good does not make it true. Just because something seems intuitive to you does not make it true. Just because an idea happens to explain a set of facts does not make it true. In fact, all of those attributes together do not make a proposition true. Without evidence and rational arguments, open to all capable observers, your belief in Christianity is not justified.
“Whether or not you, or anyone else choose to believe in God, or whether or not you, or anyone else, choose to obey His laws, is irrelevant. He will judge us, whether we believe in Him or not.”
So we agree that the truth of Christianity cannot be empirically demonstrated. Now for the implications: If Christianity is true, the plain language of the text indicates that the majority of people who have ever lived- many good, honest, loving people- are being tortured for eternity in Hell simply for believing the wrong things on the subject of religion. That, of course, is a monstrous doctrine. It is all the more monstrous considering, as you say, the truth of this doctrine cannot be demonstrated to anyone else. Why would a loving god place us in a reality where our very survival depends on our relying on the evidence of our senses, but then fail to provide us with such evidence for the one thing we need to believe to avoid eternal damnation?
LOL ….. Amazing …. always good to see a good “bull shit” artist at work …er play …. whatever.
Like I said, it all comes down to faith. Either you believe, or you don’t. It appears that you do not, so it is futile to try and talk to you about it because no matter what I say, you are not going to agree with me. So Let’s just not bother arguing with each other about this issue any longer. You can post as many comments as you want, I won’t delete them. However, I won’t respond to them either because it will be a waste of my time.
I agree with you Neal … wasting the time and going to the effort of responding intelligently can be very frustrating and futile. All actions have consequences … the Bible tells us that “every knee will bend” before the King of Kings.
I welcome the day and pray for it daily …. “this is not my home” … I have a better place waiting.
Many are not going to listen to reason or the concept of Faith…. which is fine …. but I will not entertain people insulting and questioning my Faith …. Faith is an act of trust and love and a hope for tomorrow. Not everyone can accept that.
I do not argue with these types it is a waste of my valuable time and I have plenty of work to do in support of the “Restoration” to Constitutional governance. There is much to do un-doing the damage done by fools and tyrants.
I wouldn’t tie it up to Satan as much as the love of Mammon. Mammon crisscrosses other religions. It’s people who put personal greed over humanity.
These people are sociopaths, and you have generations of them who have had way more power than they should.
Ever seen the movie with Clint Eastwood Pale Rider? One of my favorite Westerns. You can’t buy a good man, and the bad guy tried to buy him out. He said something along the lines “I wouldn’t be serving God, I’d be serving Mammon.” I’ll never forget that scene.
“LOL ….. Amazing …. always good to see a good “bull shit” artist at work …er play …. whatever.”
I’m a bullshit artist? You people want me to believe something that cannot be shown to be true and is in fact littered with contradictions, and I’m the one peddling bullshit? It’s pointless arguing with you two because you have no intellectual standards. You believe whatever happens to come to rest in your mind by whatever series of accidents, you believe it unquestionably, and you think other people are stupid if they don’t mindlessly accept your nonsense. I think it was Thomas Paine who said arguing with an irrational person is like giving medicine to a dead man.
Yes please stop arguing …. I have no intellectual standards …. I believe unquestionably. It is a waste of your time.
You just like to argue … and you are good at it …. you are also an asshole. If you were making fun of my faith your posts would all disappear. I guess Neal will have to decide when he has had enough of your bullshit ….
I wonder, do you understand the definition of faith? Faith is defined as belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof.
Obviously you do not believe in the existence of God, and therefore in the existence of the devil. Fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. However, I do believe, and my belief is based on faith. I do not need to be shown, as my belief does not require that I be shown God to believe in Him.
I do not expect anyone to hold the same beliefs as I do. However my article is based upon the premise that one does hold those same beliefs. You and I can argue back and forth for eternity and neither of us will change the other persons mind. So why don’t you just drop it and leave us to our nonsense.
I had said that I would not delete your posts, but if you cannot drop this issue I may have to change my mind.
I have to wonder Neal …. what it must be like to have no hope in life. Nothing past this miserable existence. What an empty life to have no hope or faith other than what can be extracted from this life. To have no compass by which one can steer … a good and decent life. If there is no consequence other than that by society? No wonder we have such terrible problems with morality and decency if we have more and more people engaging in Godlessness.
I don’t need to have scientific proof …. I have the proof that saved me 15 years ago. I was not living a Christian life at all. I was saved from a life of ruin and emptiness just in time I think. I have been struggling to raise a son by myself over these years. By Gods grace I successfully brought him to manhood and High School graduation and I can truthfully say that he is a splendid young man who will lead a good and Godly life and be an advocate for decency with a love of God and Country. I have never known a finer young man.
I cannot imagine trying to raise children in an environment without Gods compass in this society of excess.
“What an empty life to have no hope or faith other than what can be extracted from this life.”
Having no transcendent source of meaning does not mean that there can be no meaning to ones life at all. In fact it could just as well be a barrier to a meaningful life. Perhaps your ideal mode of life does not conform to that dictated by some transcendent source. It is up to you to examine yourself and choose the correct life for yourself. It would be that way even if a God existed. The choice would still be yours. Gods views would just be one more bit of desiderata to weigh.
“To have no compass by which one can steer … a good and decent life. If there is no consequence other than that by society?”
We are (mostly) rational, sentient beings living in complex social environments. To the extent to which we are somewhat similar with regards to objecting to having our things taken, or being assaulted, or being killed, etc., normative values worth defending almost inevitably will become apparent, no Gods needed.
“No wonder we have such terrible problems with morality and decency if we have more and more people engaging in Godlessness.”
Contrary to your thesis, atheists are actually underrepresented in the prison system. You may have noticed also that a good number of horrible things have been done by religious believers, often in the name of their religion. The point is that, upon cursory reflection, nonbelievers are clearly no less moral than believers. If anything religion does more to pervert morality because it claims that the moral injunctions of an unknowable being are to be accepted completely and without question. If you really took Christianity seriously you should be wanting to stone adulterers, recalcitrant children, homosexuals, etc. Of course you don’t want to do those things, no Christian does anymore. Why? Thank secular reasoning about moral values. Christianity hasn’t changed in 2000 years. The book still says the same thing.
Blah Blah Blah…… unadulterated “horse shit”.
Your lack of understanding of the Bible and the difference between New and Old Testament is astounding. You try to give secularism credit for mercy ….. read the New Testament on the trials and travels of Jesus Christ. “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone” …..
Like I said you argue for the sake of argument …. why??? Probably because you have nothing to believe in ….. pity. If I did not despise atheism and their ilk I might feel sorry for you …. nah … I have not the time, I cannot judge you anyway ….. only Jesus Christ can take pity on your wretched soul.
Paul writes to the Romans 14: 10-12
“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
“Your lack of understanding of the Bible and the difference between New and Old Testament is astounding.”
What specifically about the Bible have I said that is wrong?
“You try to give secularism credit for mercy ….. read the New Testament on the trials and travels of Jesus Christ. “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone” ….. ”
That’s not exactly what I said. My point was that religious morality is static and absolute. So all that bad stuff in the Bible like stoning adulterers (Deuteronomy 22:23-24), stoning recalcitrant kids (Deuteronomy 21:18-21), stoning people for working on the sabbath (Numbers 15:32-56), etc. are moral precepts any true Christian ought to be bound to. Moral progress can only happen if people are free to think about moral issues.
“Like I said you argue for the sake of argument …. why?”
I like to discuss these issues because I care about the truth of what I believe.
“Probably because you have nothing to believe in ….. pity.”
That’s a tad conceited, don’t you think. I don’t believe in your brand of religion so therefore I must have nothing to believe in?
“That’s not exactly what I said. My point was that religious morality is static and absolute. So all that bad stuff in the Bible like stoning adulterers (Deuteronomy 22:23-24), stoning recalcitrant kids (Deuteronomy 21:18-21), stoning people for working on the sabbath (Numbers 15:32-56), etc. are moral precepts any true Christian ought to be bound to. Moral progress can only happen if people are free to think about moral issues.”
That is the “OLD TESTAMENT” Romans is in the “NEW TESTAMENT” You were the one making fun of Christianity …. talking about stoning people etc. You are citing all old testament … and we are not bound by those “precepts” any longer. It would be helpful if you knew what you were talking about. I am not arguing the science of bullshit so maybe you shouldn’t try arguing Religion either.
I have to wonder why you persist in this. I wrote my response to Neal not to you and yet you quickly picked up the cause of arguing and dissing my faith …..again. You obviously do not belong here … you think it is smart to argue your point using “big” words and analogies that would be more at home with other intellectuals and non believers of your ilk. You know (by now) that you are not going to change anyone here and yet …. you keep it up. I can only assume that you get some sick kick out of acting superior and arguing about things that you know nothing about and make you actually look foolish and somewhat conceited. and yet you call me conceited …. OK I am conceited …. you are still and atheistic asshole and too fucking fond of yourself to stop arguing about things that really shouldn’t matter to you if you are in fact really an atheist. Whatever you are I can continue on hurling insults at you and it won’t bother me much …. I am secure in what I know is the truth.
Dakota- Thanks for taking up the slack for me. I am in the process of writing another article, which hopefully will explain things a bit more concisely and act as a rebuttal to those who insist upon insulting our beliefs.
“You are citing all old testament … and we are not bound by those “precepts” any longer.”
Jesus disagrees. (Matthew 5:17-19)
Also is homosexuality condemned in the Old Testament or the New Testament? Does Jesus ever mention a word about homosexuality? If it’s only condemned in the Old Testament shouldn’t it be dismissed in the same way Christians dismiss the notion of stoning adulterers?
You are very welcome Neal …. I refuse to let some “educated idiot” shake my faith, no matter how much they like to quote the scriptures out of context ….. scriptures that contain the element of faith that we believe and yet others twist to try and argue their point that religion is silly and stupid.
I actually get a kick out of these clowns that think they have the “truth” ….. I don’t really think about it much to be honest…. seems to me if you have to argue there is no God…. are you trying to convince me …. or yourself. I remember seeing a paper a few years ago that shot pretty good holes in the so called “big bang” theory. Making it impossible (scientifically) to have happened like that. Then you have to use common sense and realize that when you blow things up ( I used to be an underground gold miner and a certified blaster) you destroy them …. period. The complexities of the Earth as we know it .. all the creatures and plants etc that inhabit it and it all happened by chance???? Talk about needing faith to believe something that far-reaching.
Have you ever seen the video series of Louie Giglio “How Great is our God” parts 1 thru 5 I think. If you have never seen it … it is one of the most amazing things I have ever watched. I think our non believer could even give him/her a couple of things to think about. It is worth the time….. I guarantee it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCIyBxPBJXw&feature=related
“You are very welcome Neal …. I refuse to let some “educated idiot” shake my faith, no matter how much they like to quote the scriptures out of context …..”
What quote did I take out of context and how would taking that context into account effect the point I was making?
Also please address the following questions: Is homosexuality condemned in the Old Testament or the New Testament? Does Jesus ever mention a word about homosexuality? If it’s only condemned in the Old Testament shouldn’t it be dismissed in the same way Christians dismiss the notion of stoning adulterers?
This is your area of expertise so it should be easy for you to provide answers to these few questions. Thanks in advance.
If I could answer InviQtus here on the question of homosexuality…
“Is homosexuality condemned in the Old Testament or the New Testament? Does Jesus ever mention a word about homosexuality? If it’s only condemned in the Old Testament shouldn’t it be dismissed in the same way Christians dismiss the notion of stoning adulterers?”
The answer is that both the Old and New Testament speak out on the subject of homosexuality. The first appearance of God’s perspective of homosexuality appears in Leviticus 18:22 (Old Testament) “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind:it is abomination.” This is also listed again in Leviticus 20:13 as one of many sins punishable by death under the Old Testament Levitical Law. “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
Basically, no chance for repentance, no sacrifice to cover or have the sin cleansed, no apologies…nothing. This should give you a little insite into the character of the Lord God. He hates sin! But then again…God is a Holy God. That has not changed because God doesn’t change. One thing I’ve learned is that mans perception and opionion of God changes constantly but God’s perception of man never changes.
We see the topic of homosexuality pulled forward into the New Testament in Romans 1:18-32 where the Apostle Paul gives a clear depiction of the atheist, idolaters, homosexuals, and God’s response to those things.
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleaness through the lusts of their own heart, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickeness, coveteousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful; Who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
I think these verses clearly show God’s opinion of homosexuality as “abomination”.
Since you made reference to Jesus in his travels not mentioning one thing about homosexuality which is found in the four Gospels one of which was written by John
And to answer your other question “Does Jesus ever mention a word about homosexuality?”
Jesus did in fact speak against atheism and homosexuality in Revelation 21:6-8 as well. “And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:which is the second death.”
“Why would a loving god place us in a reality where our very survival depends on our relying on the evidence of our senses, but then fail to provide us with such evidence for the one thing we need to believe to avoid eternal damnation?”
Jesus died for you InviQtus…so that you wouldn’t have to go to a place like that. He’s given you all the imperical evidence you will ever need to believe in his existence. “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handiwork” Psalms 19:1 The very invisible breath you breath is His gift. How can you neglect so great a salvation and say in your heart “there is no God”? My advise is that since faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God…read the book…don’t wait for the movie…
I was going to answer but it looks like someone beat me too it, so I will let sloper’s reply do the talking for me.
Well done.
It appears that I skipped over the last part of InviQtus’ question unintentionally. No doubt he will catch this, since he has a very keen intellect.
InviQtus-”If it’s only condemned in the Old Testament shouldn’t it be dismissed in the same way Christians dismiss the notion of stoning adulterers?”
As outlined previously, homosexuality is condemned in both old and new testaments as abomination and referred to as such by the words of Jesus in Revelation 21:8. So if God still feels the same way should we dismiss it? I think not. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. While the fact that God sees homosexuality/adultery as sin has not changed, the punishment for those sins are reserved for God alone to judge and punish in the end. That is notwithstanding the laws of man don’t catch up with an individual first or God pulls his longsuffering and destroys their flesh. Again…”Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” Galatians 6:7
Fact…sin has consequences either in this life or the next. I’ve suffered a few of those myself due to my own sins. I’m not going to blame anyone for them or blame God…they were of my own making.
I thank God though, that He is longsuffering…if not I would have been consumed a long time ago. Thanks be to God!
Jesus was always a good one at pointing out the true intent of the commandment ie… Matthew 5:28 “But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.” It was in that same spirit that Jesus intervened for the woman caught in adultery in John 8:7 when he said “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”
Dakota-“You are citing all old testament … and we are not bound by those “precepts” any longer.”
InviQtus-Jesus disagrees. (Matthew 5:17-19)
Let’s take a look at those words of Jesus and compare them with the remaining body of scripture as it is my firm belief that scripture interprets scripture and the context thereof is king. My exegesus is a bit rusty but here goes.
Matthew 5:17 “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”
The audience for this discourse is solely Jews and this comment in particular aimed (as many of his comments were) at those whitewashed sepulcres, the scribes and pharisees. They were intent on entrapping Jesus and branding him as a rebellion maker and it’s in this context that this is written.
The timeframe…before the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Jesus said “I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil” Indeed it was for this reason that Christ came and died…not only to fulfill the law but to fulfill the requirement of the law for us because we were unable to.
Once something is fulfilled that is the end of it as Paul stated in Romans 10:4 “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes.”
That Christ fulfilled all the requirements of the law at Calvary is supported by the rest of the New Testament cannon.
Galatians 2:16 (speaks of being justified by faith) “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
Romans 5:1,2 (peace with God)”Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.”
Galatians 3:10-14 (the just shall live by faith) “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Romans 3:19-23 (speaks of the law of works) “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God”
Romans 3:27-31 (speaks of the law of faith)”Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
James calls it a “Royal Law” James 2:8-10 “If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Galatians 5:14 “For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
Jesus essentially said the same thing in Matthew 22:35-40 “Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
So you see InviQtus, we are not under the Jewish law (I don’t know about you, but I’m not even Jewish) but if we believe in and receive Christ then we are covered by God’s grace. Christians, whether they be Jews or Gentiles are now under God’s Royal law of love which is the true spirit of the entire law as Jesus stated above.
This by no means that Christians are supposed to roll over and wink at sin or remain silent on the subject. Make no mistake that God hates sin but loves the sinner. God hates the sin of heterosexuals the same as he hates the sin of homosexuals. God’s heart is one of reconcilliation…reconciling man to Himself. That’s why he sent Jesus.
We should all be glad that he did too because it’s the only thing holding back the wrath of God on this world.
My sincere prayer for you is that you will see that Jesus is who he said he is and that he can do what he says he will do. Not just in terms of judgement or punishment but forgiveness and hope for your future. “But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” John 20:31
“I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me.” John 14:6
Blessings,
sloloper
Hello sloloper35 and thank you for your thoughtful replies.
“We see the topic of homosexuality pulled forward into the New Testament in Romans 1:18-32 where the Apostle Paul gives a clear depiction of the atheist, idolaters, homosexuals, and God’s response to those things.”
To be clear, the Bible describes what men writing in the first century CLAIM Gods views are. Aside from the issue of what reasons we may or may not have for believing that any species of a God exists in the first place (something that remains to be proved), we have the question of what reasons we have for believing that a God exists AND he somehow inspired the authorship of one of the worlds numerous and disparate religious texts. If we examine the moral directives of some religious text and find them to be barbaric and ridiculous- in sum or in part, for a span of time or for eternity ever after, or for some group or for all- by the lights of moral views that have evolved among human groups all over the world, over the course of centuries of experience with moral matters, this would count strongly against the claim of inspiration by a good and just God, as the Christian God is claimed to be.
The Bible does contain numerous barbaric and ridiculous moral injunctions i.e. Romans 1:18-32. It is by no means a majority few among contemporary Christian that homosexuals ought to be put to death. Nor is it a majority few that stoning adulterers (Deuteronomy 22:23-24), stoning recalcitrant kids (Deuteronomy 21:18-21), or stoning people for working on the sabbath (Numbers 15:32-56) is morally acceptable. None of this is considered remotely acceptable today. Moreover all Christians today would consider rape and slavery to be unquestionably wrong- the bible never condemns those acts. That being the case, we can say that the bible is most definitely not the product of a good and just God, and thus Christianity is false.
Additionally, if God condemns people to eternal suffering for not believing Christianity is true, as the Bible clearly says, and if God is a good and just God, as the Bible says, then the truth of Christianity ought to be as obvious to us as the existence of the sun. A loving God would not want any one of His creation to suffer for eternity, and if the only thing preventing that is some measure of proof sufficient for the individual to believe, then a loving God would surely provide such evidence. The truth of Christianity is far from indisputable. So again we can conclude that Christianity is false. It is impossible to believe that a loving God would create a Hell in the first place, but it is still more impossible to believe that a loving God would create a Hell for nonbelievers and then make belief a matter of faith.
The Bible claims that God created the universe. It also claims that God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent. An all knowing and all powerful God could create the world any way that He wanted to. So if this God creates a world in which there exists a great deal of suffering, when this being could have just as easily done otherwise, then this being would thus be causing unnecessary suffering. An all loving God would not cause unnecessary suffering. We do live in a world with a great deal of suffering at the hands of other people, disease, famine, natural disasters, etc. Therefore we can conclude that an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent god does not exist. Therefore we can conclude that the Christian God does not exist.
Three positive arguments for the nonexistence of the Christian God (there are others, but three really ought to be sufficient for the cause), coupled with the dearth of evidence provided by theists for the truth of Christianity, make belief in Christianity untenable and irrational. My sincere hope for you sloloper35 is that you have the rational capacity and the courage to free yourself from superstitious nonsense. Christianity is false and thank God. It means that the vast bulk of humanity that has ever lived is NOT currently being tortured for eternity in Hell simply for believing the wrong things on the subject of religion, as they would be if Christianity were true. How could anyone with a modicum of concern for the welfare of your fellow human beings not count that as a good thing? The world is not under the dictatorship of a cosmic Hitler! How could that not be a good thing I ask you?
Well Neal, that about does it for me. If I could get my hands on this prick I would settle it with knives or pistols. I cannot …. it makes no difference what comes up to this asshole. He continues to make fun of and insult my religion with half truths and bullshit. I cannot in good conscience continue on these pages and tolerate my faith being called superstitious nonsense and Hitler like.
I suppose that was his intent all along to ruin your nice little blog here. I can exchange political ideas … but I will not tolerate or contribute to a blog that allows the religion of Christianity to be assaulted in this manner.
“Well Neal, that about does it for me. If I could get my hands on this prick I would settle it with knives or pistols. I cannot …. it makes no difference what comes up to this asshole. He continues to make fun of and insult my religion with half truths and bullshit. I cannot in good conscience continue on these pages and tolerate my faith being called superstitious nonsense and Hitler like.”
I did say that I think Christianity is superstitious nonsense. I also gave reasons for why I believe that is the case. I also concluded that the doctrine of Hell is Hitler like. It should be apparent from my comments why I believe that way. I’m wondering why you think it is wrong for me to use what may be emotionally charged language in the context of a thorough explanation of my views, but it is not wrong for you to indulge in name calling, threaten violence and shirk your responsibility to defend your assertions?
“I suppose that was his intent all along to ruin your nice little blog here. I can exchange political ideas … but I will not tolerate or contribute to a blog that allows the religion of Christianity to be assaulted in this manner.”
The limits of acceptable discussion in public discourse is, in fact, a political issue and an important one. People can be offended, beliefs cannot. People can be assaulted, religions qua body of ideas cannot. There are no blasphemy laws in this country for very good reasons. The founders understood that if you squelch discourse you impede progress- technical, intellectual and moral. You are living in a free and open society, Dakota. If you are not offended by something almost every day then something is wrong with you. I leave it to Neal’s good judgment to determine if my intentions are to discuss important issues with people sure to challenge my views or to ruin his blog. And if you think I am engaging in sophistry then, by all means, make your case.
Dakota, Sorry to see you go, I will miss your comments. As much as I disagree with InviQtus I cannot, with a clear conscience, censor him. The First Amendment guarantees each of us the right to speak our mind even if others do not agree with what we are saying.
I would hope that you will continue to visit my blog to at least read whatever I post. You do not have to respond, or get involved in any further discussions with people who upset you because of what they say.
My dad used to tell me that opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink.
If you do not wish to visit my blog, you can e mail me and I will send my articles to you that way.
If you wish to do that, my e mail address is bonsai@syix.com
Take care my friend.
InviQtus, this is for you. Whether or not your intentions were to annoy, anger, or alienate my readers, you have succeeded in doing just that due to your lack of courtesy to those of us who do believe in God and the sacred writings contained in the Bible.
You do not believe in God, fine! Just as you ask that I provide proof that God exists, I would therefore like to ask you to provide an answer to a question.
How do you explain the existence of man as the only being which has accomplished the miraculous things that he has?
If man evolved from primates, or if we crawled out some primordial soup eons ago, how come we are the only species that has evolved to the point where we have invented things to improve our lives?
How come no other species has evolved as we have? If evolution is to be believed then all species are capable of evolving into more intelligent beings, capable of improving their lives. How do you explain the fact that apes still live in the jungle, fish still swim in the sea, and beasts still roam the land, yet they have not evolved to the point that they have the creature comforts that mans intelligence has allowed us to invent?
Answer me that would you. If you cannot, then I would appreciate you not questioning my faith. It is very easy to find fault with the beliefs of others, but it isn’t so easy when the tables are turned.
If you wish for me to continue granting you the courtesy of my responses to your comments, then I would appreciate you providing the same type proof that you ask of Dakota and I.
Thanks Neal,
I agree with your decision not to sensor InviQtus and that because of the first amendment rights. I would say however, that this is your blog and you have absolute control over what is discussed here.
“If you wish for me to continue granting you the courtesy of my responses to your comments, then I would appreciate you providing the same type proof that you ask of Dakota and I.”
I did. You claimed that Christianity was true. I claimed that it was false. I gave a fairly thorough account of my reasons for why that is the case. Sloloper35 was has been the only one so far intrepid enough to make an good effort.
Your questions about evolution might be interesting, but they are irrelevant to the discussion. If we could prove that evolution is false it would no more mean that Christianity would be true by default than it would mean Islam or any other creation myth is true by default. Christianity has to stand on it’s own feet. One thing is sure though, if we want answers to these questions we should not look to 2000 year old creation myths, we should look to the evidence and the method for doing that is called scientific inquiry. It has done much more to improve the human condition than religion ever has. That said, I will humor you.
“How do you explain the existence of man as the only being which has accomplished the miraculous things that he has?”
Evolution is not directional. An organism is “successful” only if it is able to get more of it’s genes into the next generation. Given it’s specific niche some set of attributes will be more useful than others, i.e. ability to run faster, having thicker skin, longer arms, etc. So while it might seem intuitive that all animals would just continue to become more intelligent and better able to manipulate their environment, the logic of evolution, properly understood, makes no such assumptions. A species will only change at all if their is selective pressure (from the changing ecosystem or environment) pushing it AND if the resources are available to it to support the adaptation. The human species just happens to have ended up in the right circumstances for increased brain power to be worth the cost in terms of differential reproductive success. A number of hypotheses have been put forward for how this ended up being the case. The move to bipedalism freed up our hands making them available to fashion weapons and tools more adeptly than our arboreal counterparts ever could have. The use of weapons and group hunting made meat more available to us to fuel increased brain size. Language use is clearly useful in such a setting creating selective pressure for more abstract thought. At any rate, the answer is not fully know at this time (that is the nature of good inquiry- there is no place for certainty and the picture becomes clearer as more information is found), but we know enough about evolution and the history of our species to know that no miracles were needed.
For a better explanation of the theory of evolution I would suggest that you consult any good college level biology text book.
You said Sloper was the only one who made a good effort. I agree 100% with what Sloper said, but the fact of the matter is that he basically quoted Scripture to support his viewpoint. Since you don’t believe in Scripture, calling them myths, I don’t see how his attempts to prove his point were any more effective than what I could have said. It still does not prove unquestionably that Christianity is true and that God exists.
I intend to write one more article and post it to this blog. After that I will no longer be submitting articles as it is a waste of my time arguing with people who want proof that cannot be provided. That is why it is called faith, because it does not require proof.
One day you will get your proof, when you take your last breath. You are not going to change my views, and I apparently am not going to change yours. So let’s just end this discussion.
If I get any more comments to this post I will delete the post entirely and shut down my blog. I am just to tired to argue when there is no hope of making you see the truth.
“That is why it is called faith, because it does not require proof.”
“I am just to tired to argue when there is no hope of making you see the truth.”
Sorry Neal, but if you can’t prove it you don’t get to call it truth. Your believing something strongly does not make it true.
I know you are done with this discussion so I will leave it at that. Take care.
I sure enjoy your blog Neil, so I hope you don’t shut it down for my thoughts or comments.
If faith is believing in something that is unseen, then both viewpoints require a certain amount of faith. Actually, I believe it takes more faith to believe what InviQtus believes. InviQtus can’t prove evolution no more than you or I can prove the existence of God. I believe in the “big bang”, I believe God said it and bang it happened! Even if it happened your way InviQtus, the dust, rocks, gasses whatever had to come from somewhere. Even though, I believe all of creation screams out inteligent design..believe it so strongly and passionately that I have comitted my life to the foolishness of speaking, living and demonstrating this gospel and would gladly lay down my life for the sake of Christ, I wasn’t there in the beginning of all things and neither was InviQtus. So faith is practiced by both of us InviQtus. I also understand as Neil does that nothing we say will change your mind. We can only speak of things that we have seen and heard.
To be fully realized Christianity has to be experienced. I can have a long distance marriage with someone but for that relationship to be fully realized there has to be a connection. With God as my witness I can testify to you experiencially that my life was a —-hole before Christ saved me. I can testify to you experiencially that I would be dead right now had it not been for His intervention. With God as my witness, I can say that I have not only seen people healed but I myself have received immediate physical healing, intantanteously by the name of Jesus. I have seen men so drunk that they couldn’t hardly walk become instantly sober. And suddenly, I am overwhelmed with a urge to pray for you InviQtus. It must be God because let’s face it…you’re kind of a hard pill to swallow. I’m going do something that you will care nothing about and will most likely fall on deaf ears and I’m ok with that. There is One who listens and hears me because I am his son and he is my Father. I’m going to pray for you InviQtus. I and my family are going to pray. We’re going to pray with passion, fervency, and kindness and love. It sure couldn’t hurt right? We’re going to pray that God reveals Himself to you somehow, and by whatever means necessary. We’re going to pray that within one week’s time, God sends someone across your path that demonstrates to you the love of Christ. Not just words but a living demonstration. Your blog name will be on the lips of my loving wife, my 17 year old son and my 15 year old daughter. I make this promise before God, that I will storm heaven on your behalf. It’s all I can do… I pray that Neal and others join me. We’re going to pray that He relentlessly pursues you like He did me. God loves you and so I must also.
I’m going to leave you with one last thought that I believe God brought to me before I head off to bed.
Romans 5:6-8 “For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
Thanks so much Neil!
Blessings,
Clark
“Actually, I believe it takes more faith to believe what InviQtus believes. InviQtus can’t prove evolution no more than you or I can prove the existence of God.”
No it takes less faith to believe something that is confirmed by a vast body of evidence from numerous disciplines. It takes more faith to believe in something demonstrably false, as Christianity is.
“I’m going to pray for you InviQtus.”
Thanks, but I have already shown that Christianity is false and so there is no wrath filled God condemning people to eternal torment for simply not believing what you have conceded cannot be proven. I don’t know why you can’t accept that as the good thing that it is. Do you honestly like the idea of people being tortured forever because they don’t believe something? Can you or Neal or Dakota honestly say that? If you can’t then why on earth would you be so unwilling to think critically about Christianity?
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I Think I Figured It Out…
I think you did too Neal.
“When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people,if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:13,14
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